Moving Wind Turbines in a New Direction

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Recently, CleanTechies had the pleasure to speak with Phillip Ridings, CEO of Dragonfly Industries, Inc. We talked about the the company, its products, and what its products may mean for the clean tech sector. If Dragonfly lives up to it’s reputation it could easily revolutionize the wind industry.

CleanTechies: Phillip, can you tell us a little about the designs for the Dragonfly Turbine and MantaRay Power stations and what kind of plans you have for their future?

Phillip: Dragonfly is our land based wind turbine and MantaRay is our new water turbine so we can build one of the first Off Shore Power Stations! This product was conceived after the oil spill in the gulf. Not that we can fix the problem, but there are over 3800 Oil Rigs along the Texas / Louisiana coastline many people are not even aware of. We also know that not all of them are still producing oil so we would like to re-purpose them and turn them into one of the first “Off-Shore Power Plants” using MantaRay Water Turbines below the gulf stream waters and Dragonfly turbines above. The gulf stream has a constant flow and the natural wind power and underwater currents throughout the gulf which would be a perfect fit for this exciting conversion.

CleanTechies: Can you tell us how shrouded turbines are different from conventional 3 bladed turbines?

Phillip: Shrouded (ducted) designs come in many shapes and sizes, the concept is to create a focal point for air flow and force more air to pass over the standard turbine prop blades. The idea born in 1957 when they started working with different airfoils… but nothing was built until the mid 90’s! In a CFD (computer fluid dynamics) modeling tests on wind turbines H.Grassmann, M.L.Ganis, Dipartimento di Fisica, Univ.di Udine, Italy published this report. This testing proved once and for all Betz Law only applies to all rotor or prop driven wind turbines where the relative speed of the air can not be increased. This is what Dragonfly does better than any another other shrouded (ducted) design with its “Body Ring Airfoil”, which accelerates the relative speed of the wind. There have been many designs and concepts already tested but most of them were too heavy, bulky and not cost effective enough to be considered as a better working solution compared to the 3 bladed systems of its day. In most cases all shrouded systems produced about 2.4 times more energy then a conventional wind turbine but the cost was the deciding factor even though it produced 60% more power than any 3 bladed conventional system today. Every shrouded or ducted system was on the right track, they just didn’t take the design far enough.

Let me explain – when you look at any ducted wind turbine… the tail on every design is flared out! This is because as the air passes over the spinning props it creates more air turbulence behind it. When they tried to streamline the design and close the cavity, the vortices’s and turbulence was so bad it would shake the unit apart! The only answer was to expand the tail section to allow all this turbulent air to flow out freely and as fast as possible. What they didn’t know back then is, the answer to harnessing all this extra potential energy is accomplished by adding a simple diffuser within the design. This is what Dragonfly does but we decided there was enough potential energy in that turbulent air to harness even more power. We can’t change the volume of air coming in the unit and the thinking was that there would not be enough energy to harness more power… wrong! By reducing the size of the next generator by 25% all we are doing is compressing that same volume of air and creating a “ velocity profile” like your average garden hose nozzle. The smaller you make the opening the faster that same volume of air has to pass through the system and out the tail! We discovered we can have as many as 3 units compressing that large volume of air and it increases the winds energy. As a result the air flow speed passing over the third section is almost as fast as the relative speed of the wind! But you need to look at every wind turbine today and ask yourself one Question: “Does this turbine accelerate the relative speed of the wind, Does it make the wind flow faster?” If the answer is “no” then your looking at a system that will never produce more then 40% of the winds potential energy, which is the maximum amount of energy three bladed turbines can extract from the wind. So when you look at the cross section of Dragonfly it suddenly hits you by adding more generators not only did we create a very unique diffuser but we have a built-in, redundant system of creating energy, our own built in “backup system” to insure you still have power if one goes out!

Every 3 bladed wind turbine is using a simple “airfoil” to catch the wind. Conventional turbines today also work with a rotor hub to gearbox to generator configuration and this is why they loose so much of the winds potential energy, over 50% of this energy is lost on every system designed like this. Dragonfly’s configuration is very different and is using airfoils built into the body of the nacelle. We are not losing any of the winds potential energy because we have shortened the steps in harnessing wind with our Body Ring Airfoil to Generator design! This is a much better way to harness the winds energy using Bernoulli’s principle in fluid dynamics by redesigning an integrating our “Prop” into the body of the nacelle. This new concept increases the relative speed of the wind over a secondary blade system. The engine core inside the Body Ring Airfoil uses smaller more efficient turbine blades connected directly to the generator. The blade system we use is similar to those found in today’s Jet Engines for a faster air to power ratio! This unique design maximizes the air flow 2.4 to 4 times more than any conventional wind turbine and this translates into more efficient renewable electrical energy production!

CleanTechies:You mentioned that your designs are safer for the environment and wildlife. Can you give some detail on what makes it safer for birds, bats and other wildlife?

Phillip: Dragonfly’s unique design also reduces the impact on nature, individual owners and community concerns across the board! To tell you the truth we didn’t start out to design a wind turbine that would solve all the problems currently facing 3 bladed systems today. It’s just the fact that Dragonfly’s unique design simply negates them! What makes Dragonfly safer is we are not using huge blades that are exposed! Our blades are on the inside of the body! Less exposure and less likely to damage anything or anyone! Ironically, any bird or bat could actually fly directly in front of a Dragonfly. People, at first glance, may think it would suck the birds or bats inside, this is where we differ from conventional jet engines as there is no suction associated with Dragonfly Turbines as we are just using the relative speed of the wind so any bird or bat could fly directly in front of our unit and not be harmed. To ensure this we can add a dome of wire mesh to the intake to prevent this from happening in known migratory areas. Any bird would have to fly directly inside the system in order to be harmed. Unlike flying through an open field of wind turbines birds and bats are not even aware of the dangerous props spinning around them. Flying along in formation as a huge blade reaches up another 150ft or so and cuts through the migrating flock. Dragonfly however has nothing exposed to hurt anyone or anything! It was suggested that we add perch poles extending outward for some birds to either build a nest or use it to rest on. As I said we didn’t set out to design a solution, but its nice to know the solution has presented itself to Eco-Friendly groups who plan to endorse Dragonfly in the future! I would like to challenge you to find any flaw with this design concept – if you do please let me know! As of today I think we have the best wind turbine your money can buy!

CleanTechies: Do you plan to build smaller turbines for home use or will you focus on larger turbines for community based power plants?

Phillip: Yes, we do. Its called our “Firefly” division. These will be units that are 2ft in diameter and smaller! Meaning if we can figure out just how small we can make them and still produce energy you’ll find a Firefly in your neighborhood in the near future. One of the areas we want to look into integrating Firefly into is electric cars. Integrated into an electric cars battery system. lets say you had two batteries. As the car drains one Firefly is charging the other and vise versa. Dragonfly feeds the wheels and keeps the battery system charged which would extend the electric cars range.

This is not the only market for a smaller Dragonfly. If you need a power source on your boat, RV, or cabin in the woods I’m sure we can put a Dragonfly, MantaRay or Firefly there! Because of its unique design we are finding new uses and ideas every day. We even have one for remote cell phone towers where gasoline is not readily available, but wind is! Frank Martin has joined the company to take Dragonfly into a Nano Market, and to figure out just how small can we make them and still produce power! He wants a Dragonfly in every computer using a fan… take that known energy, force feed it through a small Dragonfly to power your monitor! Right there you’re saving money using your own computer! It’s only limited to your own imagination or where ever energy is needed. In today’s world it’s the back bone of life, you can’t go through a day without it!

CleanTechies: How far away are we from seeing Dragonflies for sale at a local dealerships?

Phillip: We plan to start setting distribution systems up within a year. Right now we are focusing more on the orders we already have and the funny thing is we don’t even have our prototype ready to show anyone yet! All of this was built on the computer fluid dynamics tests that has given us our “proof of concept”.

CleanTechies: Do you have any financial estimates as to how quick a customer will see a return on their investment given today’s power costs?

Phillip: There are variables but our rough “guesstimate” tells us that our commercial systems will pay back in 5 years and most of our residential units with the federal and state incentives on wind today should be 3-5 years and every little bit helps! Our long term goal is to help the average home owner and we want to help you wipe out another utility bill and under Federal law see a faster return by generating energy for the power grid and receiving a check each month. If you plan to stay exactly where you are you’ll always be paying an electric bill or if you invest now and have something attached to your home that generates an income in a few years instead of draining it! This is where so many wind turbines want to be… but very few even come close. At best they can only cover 15 – 35% of a home owners energy needs and are forced to supplement that with solar. Our goal is to finally give the public something that pays for itself and generates an income in a few short years! It’s really up to the customer on where they want to be in 3, 5 to 10 years time.

Unit pricing for a turn key system should start about 15K up to 25K with options. For small businesses its starts at 30K up to 45K and then we have our commercial models that will one day replace wind farm systems! I’m sure somewhere in there we are going to make something in between the small business and commercial units because there’s another growing market and Dragonfly is going to fill it!

CleanTechies: Thank you so much for speaking with CleanTechies. We wish you the best of luck in your endeavors and look forward to a follow up interview.

photo: Dragonfly

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38 Comments

  1. The last few years I have read many articles like this. All about start-up companies who would revolutionise wind turbine technology with their genius new designs. They were all very good at generating beautiful images, but somehow you never hear anything about actual prototypes being build and tested. So please allow me to be very sceptical.

    • Did it every occur to you that all those good ideas that you saw, that never came about were bought out by the one of the top 11 companies in this Multi-Trillion dollars business? Maybe you’ll never see a Dragonfly in your life time because they did the same thing! I hope not… just to prove you wrong!

      • That is the response of every crackpot inventor: it is all a big conspiracy.

        The wind turbine business is very competitive, so if one of the big companies would by such a start-up firm they would do so to use the technology to make better and cheaper wind turbines than that made by the competition.

        There is no incentive for a wind turbine manufacturer to buy knowledge and let it rust.

      • You ARE naive! Even now the 2012 Model Generator presented by GE is no the same path as Dragonfly, while they are still using standard blades and a drive shaft, it just one design away from Dragonfly! But they got their first! I could see them buying into this design concept! Who knows if they play their cards right… GE could license and OEM this product! Maybe their just too big right now to see the threat coming! Kinda like David and Goliath – when it hits them it may be too late!

      • GE has no problem buying knowledge from other smaller firms. For example: their 1.5 MW turbines are completely based on the designs of the German firm Tacke that they bought. I find it more plausible that they don’t want to put their money in every garage-inventor that comes along and claims that the has beaten Betz-law, but has no working prototype.

        You still have not explained to me what the advantage for a firm like GE, Vestas or Enercon would be to ignore technology that could strengthen their market position.

  2. Pingback: Green Business Blog Carnival #4 « David Coethica's Blog

  3. @Josh: So you herald Dragonfly as the solution to all of the worlds energy problems, before there is a working prototype. You must be American.

    • Josh did not herald anything here.. he merely asked questions and the CEO responded. Josh just passed on the statements made on this new idea. If what you pulled from the article is that this is a cure for the worlds energy crises then you have some pretty high expectations and it would appear that you’ve been looking for something better also! A cure! Like it or not every car, airplane, boat and everything in between is being engineered today is first designed in or around a working computer model This saves time, money, fabrication costs and man hours trying to fix a prototype you HOPE will work? In this day and age you would hard pressed to find one manufactured product that was not thoroughly tested before building – its just too expensive to try and reduces the time to market! As for being an American that has nothing to do with anything – but you have to give us credit for bring power into your world because it was built here first! If you got a better idea for wind… talk to Josh, Im sure he’ll cover the story for you!

      • So you want simple one line answers where you learn less about the product and get more of the reports opinion then hearing it directly from the source? Let turn it into a novel then so you can handle the information better!

      • I think I would have learned more about the product if there would have bean some critical questions, and if an outside expert would have been consulted.

  4. One of the areas we want to look into integrating Firefly into is electric cars. Integrated into an electric cars battery system. lets say you had two batteries. As the car drains one Firefly is charging the other and vise versa. Dragonfly feeds the wheels and keeps the battery system charged which would extend the electric cars range

    Oh, come on! Perpetual motion machines like this will not work.

    • Then you don’t understand the term Perpetual Motion. The theory you quoted is based on using its own energy to create more energy that feeds back on itself… Firefly does not create more wind to feed back on itself to make power! This is not the case… its a simple charging method like using an alternator today to keep your own car battery charged – yet the power the alternator needs comes from the running engine that burns gas which is the fuel source like the air is to Firefly! Under you terminology the cars rotating wheels would have to create its own energy to charge a second battery system to keep the battery systems charged – which Jeep tried to accomplished in a test vehicle a few years ago! (Google It) Jeep got a lot closer to Perpetual motion then Firefly ever will when using secondary source like wind power to charge the secondary battery that has been drained! You may won’t to keep a more open mind in the future before labeling something!

      • Then you don’t understand the term Perpetual Motion.

        Boy – you sure have a nerve. Clearly you have no real appreciation of the physical laws pertaining to conservation of energy. In this case of an electric vehicle, the “wind” past the vehicle is created by the motion of that vehicle, which is created by draining the battery to turn the wheels. Do you seriously believe that Firefly can put back more “motion wind” derived energy into the battery systems than they were drained of to create that motion? If so, then you are talking about a perpetual motion machine. End of story.

        You may won’t to keep a more open mind in the future before labeling something!

        You may need to back off on your arrogance and then brush up on your basic physics before claiming that your mind is open and mine is less so.

        If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out

        BTW. More evidence that these people don’t know what they are talking about is their belief that they can power computer monitors by tapping the energy from the “wind” made by the cooling fans. Completely bonkers.

      • Phillip, don’t waste you time on someone who doesn’t seem to realize that you were taking about two battery systems, charging one as the other one is being used to drive the car! To me this makes sense and would extend the milage! If the Generating output of Firefly was designed as a quick charging system like they currently using on electric cars today like the new Nissan Leaf, a 10 minute charging with a Firefly or even two of them under the hood would be enough to charge a second battery, for me, it would extend the electric cars distance!

        If I understand this right, this has very little to do they breaking the laws of physics and more or less presenting an idea you can’t wrap you head around as a future answer for a new electric vehicle! The world is no longer flat and yes the Wright Brothers did fly even in a time when it wasn’t believed possible. Look at what Tesla did with his electric car!!! If he can drive around for a week without a “recharge” then the answers still out there! Even if Firefly doesn’t seem to equate to your logic without breaking the “Laws of Physics” – at least they can bend them to make them work by producing MORE power then the car uses! Hello?

        Since you seem to understand the laws of physics so well… where is your great idea? You may be better off joining them instead of fighting the changes I see coming from this company! Maybe even learn to bend a few “Laws of physics” – Tesla was ahead of his time too! Funny thing is… we are discovering new things ever 6 month or so in technology breakthroughs! Its may not be Firefly, it may be something totally different – but I like the idea myself! If you take a closer look at their web site you can see they’ve broken “Betz Law” too.. and bent performance levels in a new direction with what appears to be a better design… but they were not the first to break it.. look at “Wind Tamer” of “FloDesign”… or the links to the scientific study posted here in the article that prove ducted systems are better! These other two companies claim to have done the same thing! The real answer may be that “Betz Law” doesn’t apply to their design – mmmm, just like the “Laws of Physics”? Who knows?

        If you never stick your head outside the box – you’ll never see the box for what it really is – a prison of your own mind with all the old answers handed down by people with far more ignorance then arrogance to break out and discover new answers! Because when you really look at history the risk takes change our world and made it a better place not people like yourself who would sit there telling the rest of the world it will never work… So who’s the brain here… the one who’s trying or the one who sits on the side and says – it can’t be done! Who’s actually helping solve this problem – Not you!

        With that said, It sounds like this company could use your help being the expert you are? Or is your head stuck in the box of old ideas? Then again, they may not like your attitude either! LOL! What a brilliant waste of time for a mind like yours! Cutting down new ideas like this without reading all the facts presented here! Did you even read the other links or visit the web site? Probably not!

        Good luck Einstein – When has change ever affected your life? The way I see it, nothing is going to change your mind – its just going to implode on any “new discoveries” based on “old school ideologies” that don’t make sense to you. The new ideas that don’t fit inside your box!!

        Brilliant!

      • Jack said:

        don’t waste you time on someone who doesn’t seem to realize that you were taking about two battery systems, charging one as the other one is being used to drive the car! To me this makes sense and would extend the milage!

        Unbelievable arrogance. Of course I realised you were talking about two battery systems – what part of the following extract from my post did you not understand?

        Do you seriously believe that Firefly can put back more “motion wind” derived energy into the battery systems than they were drained of to create that motion?

        Note I said SYSTEMS?

        Where you are deluded is that you don’t realise that no matter how efficient the Firefly is, while it is generating power from the relative wind of motion, the drag that it creates will always take more power from the first battery to overcome than the amount of power Firefly can possibly put back into the second battery.

        If this Dragonfly outfit thinks its vapourware computer simulation can overcome the laws of thermodynamics and reverse entropy then they have made a big mistake in their calculations. Shrouded fans are hardly new.

        In the past there have been thousands of people who thought they had broken these laws and 100s of thousands of people who believed them and invested in them only to lose their money and their pride. This is just another in a very long line of either dumb or deceitful companies destined to fail to come up with a working prototype. Don’t waste your time.

      • You keep referring to the past and 100′s of failed Ideas? Look at Edison, 3100 attempts before he discovered his own light bulb! He didn’t invent it either, he just perfected it! THIS IS TODAY, and tomorrow is our future with companies like this trying to find the answers!

        Don’t you think they want to get it right the first time using computer modeling? I would! I don’t understand where your head is on this one because this is “Aerodynamics 101″ with this “Body Ring Airfoid” in the shape of a wing! To me it does make sense because every pilot knows the camber of a wing increases the speed of air passing over it and this would not affect the cars drag if its harness correctly! “Thermodynamics” is not the methodology being applied here, Aerodynamics is!

        Even in the math presented its proving out to be a factor of 2.4 up to 4 times the air flow using this new concept and design… even with drag, what drag? We haven’t even seen all their testing results yet and still you want to judge it? Not thats not a smart move because what they have presented so far makes common sense! As for the drag on the car it could fitted with special scoops that don’t affect the car’s aerodynamics, so your argument against this really pointless! You not thinking outside the box as Jack stated! You have to give them credit for discovering a new way to harness the airs power in this design when nobody else thought of it first! Maybe this idea is 101st one you’ve seen, but if it proves out to be as good as their current testing shows, even with a 20% loss from the projected testing, that’s still 40% better then the 3 bladed wind turbines that are out there today!

        As a student pilot from a family of aviators this just makes sense and looks like a winner to us! Let it go, you’ve lost this battle from my perspective! When they do finish the prototype and it works, Im sure you’ll be the first one in line trying to buy one! I know I will!

      • Blimey – where did you lot go to school? As you obviously have not understood even slightly what I have pointed out, I will try to make it as ultra simple as I can.

        By suggesting that one of these devices can charge an electric car from the wind due to its own motion they are doing pretty much the same thing as claiming that with careful technique one could lift oneself up into the air by tugging on one’s own bootstraps. Similarly, if a car is at the top of a hill and rolls down to the bottom, even if there is no friction at all, it will never roll up the next hill any higher than its previous altitude but that is what you believe this Firefly device generator can do for the electric car. Ridiculous. It doesn’t matter how much lift or reduction of drag they claim they cannot generate energy out of nowhere which is what they appear to be doing.

        “Aerodynamics 101″… every pilot knows the camber of a wing increases the speed of air passing over it and this would not affect the cars drag if its harness correctly!

        You don’t know about aerodynamics either! Lookup form or profile drag and lift induced drag. The drag I mentioned is that extra drag which will be caused by having the Firefly device in the airstream. This extra drag (which will drain the first battery faster) will always be greater than the force of any generated electricity and so there’s no point in putting these devices onto a car – you will always lose out.

        Looking at the rest of the dragonfly website, it looks pretty much to me as if these people are either deluded or running a scam.

      • You’re over thinking this problem that they appear to have solved. In their testing and the link to the scientific study it clearly states for every pound of wind energy a ducted design, like this, will produce 2.4 to 4 times more energy? Why is that math so hard for you to understand? Even with Drag, which doesn’t have any baring in this case with numbers like these, if they can produce a wind turbine that can perform 66 times better then what is out there, it sounds like they are on the right track!

  5. While I do look forward to hearing some results from 3rd party tests on their turbines (if they ever produce one), this one quote from their website puts me squarely in the camp of non-believers in their version of physics.

    “Dragonfly not only produces 3 times the energy wind speed, but Dragonfly also produces electrical energy in NO WIND at all! This makes Dragonfly the first ‘Self Powered Wind Turbine System’. Working 24/7 365 days a year”

    If that were the case, I’d put one in my basement and be energy independent for life. Figuring they couldn’t be making such a ludicrous statement I flipped to the next page and kept reading.

    On the the next page the go on to explain that they’ll have solar panels on the turbines to charge the batteries of the electric motors that will spin the turbines on windless days to produce energy. I’m all for combined solar & wind installations, but why you would then use the solar energy to power the turbine is a mystery to me. It would appear that they’re claiming that they can take energy from a battery, spin one “body ring prop” on their turbine to create wind, have that same wind spin the other “body ring props” on that very same turbine and create more energy than was expended creating the wind in the first place.

    That goes against common sense and everything I learned in physics, especially the part about conservation of energy. Based on that I stopped reading any further, started chuckling, and closed their site.

    But hey, if it does work, we’ll gain energy independence very quickly and someone will win a Nobel prize for it.

    • I understand your reluctance to accept the concept of being able to run 24/7! From your perspective and not having all the facts I would kinda laugh at the idea myself. The funny thing is when the basic design for Dragonfly was presented to the “So-Called” experts! They said it wouldn’t work either based solely on what they knew from past designs similar to this! Well, we proved them wrong too!

      An independent team at Solid Works, highlighted in our “Blog Log”, were the first ones that help us realize we had a great design in the making when they produced the CDF testing! Over the past year we’ve tried to improve Dragonfly and Im proud to say that the results are getting better with each generational design!

      After a few modification the same team conducted our second testing, the results were even better. With each design step in this process we have improved the results and are currently working on our 4th Generation turbine! (Its not postet!) During this process it also helped us re-evaluate our 24/7 system you read about on the web site! The electric motor and battery system are out and I apologize the posting is still there – but it did give you pause and or caught your attention, which is its only justification for it still being there… it made you think!

      While I can’t discuss how the new system will accomplish this daunting task with our latest “redesign”, I can tell you the new system is more of an “augmentation system” and is NOT meant to be used as any primary drive! We already know how critics would start to think “perpetual motion” and we all aware with the limitations of our current scientific knowledge this can’t be done! (At least not yet! lol!) Then again, it doesn’t have to! We can’t show how we intended to make Dragonfly work 24 / 7 with this “new” system, only our investors are privileged this information at this point in time! Its merely system that is intended to be used on “windless” days or about 14 days out of every month! This is based on the current information and reports being presented on the limited function of all 3 bladed systems today! When we do publish a formal statement, in about a month or so, I think a lot of people will be surprised just like you!

      Thank you for being so open to this new concept. Our current website will be coming down soon so we don’t scare everyone off anymore! We will have a new look and feel to help the company appear more like a business! We felt it was needed to help our future customers realize we are stepping across from science fiction into the science fact with the completion of the Dragonfly prototype!

      If we do get a nobel prize – which I really doubt… Send me an email with your contact information and I’ll make sure you’re there to witness the event! History – happening today!

      Thank you!

      • This starts to look more and more, like Steorn.

        Sad that an editor of Cleantechies shows so little critical thinking.

      • Ironically, the proof all of you are seeking from us is already out there in another design concept.

        http://www.openhydro.com/images.html

        True, OpenHydro is a TIde Water Generator but with our Closed Tail Body Ring Airfoil – we’ve taken the Ducted system to a whole new level and the difference is our system can be used on land and under water! The proof posted here tells us this Tide Generator is 31ft in diameter, producing 1.5Mws of power! This open hole concept is almost the same as Dragonfly! So here is some proof to help you understand we are headed in the right direction!

        We are re-inventing the Wind Turbine, not a simple task for anyone these days. We knew going into this we would be greeted by our “Fair” share of skeptics but not before they had all the facts, certainly not before all the testing data could be presented? For some reason some of you seem to think we have not already considered every aspect of this project before presenting to the public as a new concept? We didn’t do this to be criticized by those on the outside – People who have not seen the test results, the changes and refinements being made every 3 months to this project? True everyone is entitled to their opinion… but it doesn’t make sense to put an idea down without all the facts or data in front of you… not smart at all! All the evidence on this case has not been presented so how can any of you judge it fairly? I guess we under estimated the lack thereof…

        Right now, we have Flow studies in Wind Pressures, Velocity Profiles, Pressure flows, Turbulent Intensity, Vector Plot: Velocity profiles and animated CDF (Computer Dynamic Fluid) testing in 24 and 200 mph winds! I can hear it now… laughing – 200 mph why? So i’ll turn the question around and say, why not! It looks like a jet engine to me – so test it like one! When you consider every other turbine stops or fails in winds 55Mph and above, wouldn’t it be nice to have something that still works in a really bad storm when its knocked out your general power grid? So it goes without saying that all the detailed information of Dragonfly is classified right now… but with the progress we’ve made over the past year it’s getting better as we start on our 4th Generation design! At this point in time we also feel confident enough to produce a working prototype!

        As for Josh and the editorial staff, we are grateful they took their time to investigate us also… because what you read here is only half of the story! Im sure they contemplated on publishing this article or not it was really up to them! What I find so amusing is how this interview was looked at as an advertorial because we are not asking for money or taking orders on our product. We already have commercial orders that started back in March of this year. The only reason we did this interview was to help explain what was so different about Dragonfly based on the questions they asked! Simple questions yes, with complicated answers. We felt the more informed you are the more sense it would make! I guess we missed out on that point too? In all fairness the sole purpose was to show you a new “concept” currently in development!

        I hope this helps put an end to any more ridiculous accusations made by others so you can enjoy a sneak peek at our new wind turbine technology that will be coming to a wind farm near you! …Or would you prefer one of those 3 bladed dinosaurs in you back yard? Your choice!

  6. Jack / Phillip – the excessive use of exclamation points is probably a bigger red flag than the science for many readers. Get an independent 3rd party or two to test a prototype and have them do a detailed, fact based write-up of how it performed in side by side tests with various other turbines (3 blade, vertical, and other new designs) and that will answer the science questions. But right now your comments (and site) read like someone is shouting on an infomercial.

    At any rate, it’s been an entertaining conversation, that’s for sure.

  7. Even if the rather wild claims of this firm can be substantiated, the company is very naive to think that they can get from nothing more than a computer model, to a series production in a year.

    • Thanks Josh,

      Some people want to label our system a perpetual motion machine without all the facts on how we plan to augment Dragonfly! Well, believe it or not, some of the other wind turbine companies are headed in the same direction we already discovered – but – they are using Natural Gas? Does this make sense to anyone, using another fuel source to power a wind turbine to create more energy?

      As you read this article, just like Dragonfly, this does not make either one of us a perpetual motion machine!

      http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/news/Environment_380/Gas-powered_Motors_on_Wind_Turbines.shtml

      GAS POWERED Turbines!!! We’ll have to wait and see how cost effective this new add on is going to be? No doubt it will raise the cost of the turbine itself and across the maintenance board. If one breaks down, catches fire, then what? You may end up with a fire bomb or a field of exploding turbines… talk about adding a fuel the number one issue for 3 bladed wind turbines… FIRE! “Natural Gas Turbine Explodes, Fire and Film at Eleven – Ouch! ” This will become another problem added to the list of 13 issues that todays wind turbines already face!

      This also reminds me of the “Bloom Energy” machine…! You are still consuming another fuel source that comes with a bill? It may not cost as much now but if the market changes or the demand goes up or they just run out of Gas.. then what? You’re right back where you started! A lot of machine doing nothing! Natural Gas was not the answer for us! If all wind turbines are headed in this direction would it make more sense to replace them with Bloom Energy machines! We don’t need to be feeding gas to another dinosaur on a pole that could breakdown or blow up and become even more environmentally dangerous to everyone! When is this kind of engineering madness going to stop?

      Dragonfly Industries found another way around this issue only because of the unique design and configuration of Dragonfly, and all of our investors are ecstatic with the solution! They are the only one’s that are privileged with this information but rest assured we are not consuming another fuel.

      One more thing – we will have a product in production in less then a year because the company who is building the prototype will also be our first manufacturer! So our projected turn-around time in bringing a Dragonfly to market is very feasible!

      Thanks for the note!

    • Josh, that link is for perpetual flight, which is quite different than perpetual motion. Read the title of the link… With efficient solar panels, light batteries, and a light plane, it’s not hard to see how perpetual flight can work. But the solar powered airplane receives new energy from the sun and doesn’t claim to then use that to make more energy than it stored. Big big difference between perpetual flight and perpetual motion.

      Perpetual flight just means that the plane is able to receive and store more energy than it uses. That’s just a weight and efficiency issue. Perpetual motion is a totally different gig.

      • I agree with you Gear and as a pilot understand what your saying. I should have explained what I meant more clearly, I believe that just about anything is possible given the right amount of effort. This plane only proves it. And Dragonfly never claimed perpetual motion that I can find, only an extended range on the vehicle. If the prototype proves that the air coming out of the exhaust port is actually going faster than the air entering the intake then it is feasible that they would not create more drag/power and actually extend the range, especially with a solar lined roof. Again “extend”.

      • @Josh: The apparent wind you experience when driving is caused by your car moving relative to the air. This apparent wind is thus “powered” by your motor. If you add a windturbine (doesn’t matter which type) to your car it will cause extra drag and your motor will have to deliver more power and thus will use more fuel. It is a direct consequence of the first law of thermodynamics that the power you gain from your windturbine can never be more than the extra power your motor puts in to compensate for the extra drag.

        There is no free energy in nature , it always has to come from somewhere.

  8. If I read the dragonfly website correctly the 24h hour power works like this:

    If there is no wind, power from a battery is used to drive one of the rotors in the dragonfly turbine, that creates wind, driving the other rotors which in turn drive a generator. This generator produces more power than was put in from the battery.

    If my reading is correct this means the dragonfly would break the first law of thermodynamics. Since this is rather unlikely, my guess is that the inventors belong to the over-unity/perpeteum mobile/lunatic community.

  9. About Betz law:

    Betz law is based on the principle that if you would take all the energy from the wind, the air behind your windturbine has such a low speed that it blocks the air coming from the windturbine. Working out this basic idea using physical laws, Betz derived that maximal 59% of the power of the wind can be used.

    Betz law is independent of the type of design. There is no exception for shrouded designs. However, for shrouded designs you should note that it is only valid for the apparatus as a whole, i.e. it is valid for the windpower in the largest cross-section of the machine.

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